abuse me - I deserve it

From: Pat Lefemine Date: 17-Nov-01

Check out the live hunt (homepage) and look at the buck I passed up. Ok, let me have it....

I would of passed him up also. With some other deer described at being greater than 170, if you shot this boy I am sure you would of regretted it. From the photo he doesn't seem to have any brow tines. Good choice on your part.

Too much hunting with Rupe and Scott. You have been spoiled by the stuff we have here on the Eastern Shore. Good luck, Pat.

He's definitely a bruiser. But on the first day? Look at the other bucks in the hunt so far...Rightous choice. You won't be sorry....Best of luck, Man. If you saw this buck in Ct., no doubt. But not out there. Wish I was there!!!

Butch

Bearfinger .... You did the right thing ... that's a nice buck, but you should do better ... you're in Kansas now man, this ain't PA ... 8^)

I'll bet you see bigger. Man Kansas has nice deer. I have seen some bruiser Mulies out there too.

Help me find it. I see the rut thing but none of the semi-live hunts. A link?

Yeah Pat...you do deserve it...

But then again, we have all made dumb mistakes..:-) I have only dreamed of having a shot at a buck like that, let alone pass one up!

Yep...I would be ashamed too, but your a brave man for admitting your guilt and accepting the punishment...which is to go back out there and get that buck!

:-)

Mike B

Pat,

In that i've never closed the deal on a buck like that (i have had some beauties under my stand after filling my tag on a smaller buck - oh, and i've blown it in myriad ways on others), i would have gone for that nice 8. But for you?...it's day 1...and look at that 10 point! And if you come home w/out a bigger one, how many guys have a "passed him up" story (w/pictures!) like that? Good luck, Dale

I just noted that this would have been the biggest you ever shot too.

Still, seeing as many as you are, and knowing bigger ones are out there, keeps me from saying "Pat! You big dummy!".

Hey Pat, I've seen this with you before, with & without good outcomes (i.e. Spearhead!!) Still, you made a good choice. Good hunting and I'll see you in CT. Bill....

Ah, thanks anyhow. It showed up finally. I would love to take a deer like that with a trad bow. Probably old hat for you though. Thanks for the show.

Pat, Patrick Jr. said that you should not have shot him because he is tiny. Matthew thanks that you should have shot him, and Abigail just sat on my lap saying deer, deer. Sounds like you are having fun and the kids liked the video.

NOT, it is too close to rifle season and it is a very nice deer. There are bigger bucks in KS, I know, I hunt there and saw a couple two weeks ago. But, unless you are just trophy hunting ONLY, that would have been a good bow deer. I do say that I would have been thinking all of the things you mentioned, first day, and all. Good luck.

Mike...OK

Julie .... Why is it that you are the President of the company, but Pat gets to take all the trips? You should have married me. If you ever decide to dump Pat, I'd be happy to marry you, and I'm sure my wife won't mind at all. Sincerely, Dal Lowrey aka, Friend of the little man, enemy of none.

Dal, Pat is the President, I am only Vice President. I guess the President gets all of the perks. No seriously though I don't feel comfortable leaving our 3 children until they get a little older. Until then it is a lot of fun watching Pat.

I bet that buck is only 2 1/2. A definite pass up on a "Disco-hunt" Pat!

Hi Julie!

Julie, my mistake ... I thought you were President ... anyway, I'm crushed, but I wish more moms thought like you do ... Dal

Does it matter what anyone else thinks????

One knows for him/herself what they want to do. If it isnt right, or doesnt feel right then the animal walks. it all depends on what your after. As said a million times before, they are all trophys taken with a bow.

I've never shot one that big. I wouldn't have held out. But being able to pass him up shows your maturity as a hunter. You can never regret that.

Pat, I understand Why you did it. Not sure I would have. But I live by the rule shoot what God offers when he offers it as long as it's legal, ethical and all the rest like that. That is however for regular hunting not a guided trophy hunt. So you probably did the right thing. Patrick Jr. Must be seeing some huge bucks if that one is tiny to him. God Bless and Good Hunting, Curtiss

That was a nice one. But maybe you will see a bigger one, good luck.

Good decision Pat.

Pat,

Would have passed on the first day. You did right! I like that bruiser and love the video. Pat, Jr., has a pretty good eye. Good luck on a big'un!

By the way, Dal, are all those Kansas bucks that small? You'd better shoot one of those corn fattened does, if you want meat --- or your trophy! ~:^)

Aloha and Aho,

Mike

good decision. early in the hunt and you KNOW you're in a hot area and you'll get the cream of the crop in terms of spots to hunt. you made the right decision at the time and no matter what happens or does not happen that does not change.

the toughest part for me would not have been passing one that size, but passing one that close.........you may get a shot at a better buck, but you won't get a better shot!

3 yards.................wow!

Mike ... I seen a picture of a buck Keith Foster killed here that weighed 280# field dressed ... now that's a huge deer .... Over the years I've seen several does that would weigh 200# ... but that's not the norm ... sadly, the deer hunting here statewide is not what it was and numbers are down ... if a person watches this hunt and thinks all of Kansas is like this then they are being mislead - it isn't! .... countless acres are being leased by outfitters and this is a real sore spot with many Kansas bowhunters ... I don't have the answer, and I surely don't fault the farmers trying to make a living .... but, $4K for a WT hunt in Kansas makes me laugh ... if a NR wants to hunt Kansas he should get a tag and start knocking on doors ... good hunting can be found, but it's getting harder .... but, to each his own ... I'm sure when I hunt wyoming the locals feel the same way about me paying a land owner .... Dal

Paul ... This kind of hunting ain't for the average guy, that's for sure ... I'm sure this company has exspenses and far be it for me to dictate another's fees ... it is fun to watch ... I just can't get excited about a big WT ... but, lots of guys would rather hunt WT than elk - not me .... 8^)

Paul ... there is no such thing as QDM ... that's a farse ... all a person does it put out mineral licks and make sure they aren't overhunted ... there's plenty of water and farmland there ... the idea of QDM always cracks me up ... you want a big deer? Let'em grow up ... That buck Pat passed on was a youngster ... next year he'll really be nice .... no management needed, just common sense ... Dal

Pat one thing I`ve noticed about Southwest KS is that the bucks down there grow huge mass...I`ve had several bucks come into my taxidermy shop from down that way with unbelievable mass....You`ll know which one too shoot when he comes in---there won`t be no doubt..Keep letting them walk till that big boy comes in. We have some bitter cold weather comming in and it`s only going to get better....Welcome to Kansas bud!!! Home of the "Kansas Kings"...he he he..

Tough call. It would have been the biggest rack deer I'd ever shot, too. That makes it much more difficult.

However, I can't help but think about the fact that you are hunting in a spot that could produce a true monster buck. How many oppotunities are you going to have in life to hunt in a place like that? I think passing him up was the smart thing to do on the the first day of your hunt. But it's going to get harder every day to pass up another one of similar size.

I hope lady luck shines on you in the days ahead. Thanks for sharing the hunt with us.

youre crazy

i wouldve shot it in two seconds flat

Enough kickin yourself in the butt.

Dump that video camera and get your concentratin hat on.

While you were takin pics of that nice buck the ol big boy was hot on the trail of a doe 20 yds behind ya. he he he

Were gonna expect some serious results tomorrow. Get some sleep, clear your head, and be ready.

BTW, how come ya wanna shoot somethin? That's when all the work starts. he he he

When ya hear the hawk scream ....

Best of luck !!!!

ahhh, Pat passing up a nice buck to wait for a bigger one...I smell a future Chuck Adams...

Yeah Pat, if you get one grin ear to ear and stand 10 feet behind the rack during the photo to make it look bigger!

If you weren't going to shoot him, you could have at least gotten down from your stand and scratched that itch for him! Poor guy.

:)

And how about that 'young' 12-point?

Dan missed a 170 class monster tonght ... now that's a heartbreaker!!!! I hate straight down shots, nothing harder ... those little branches will kill ya every time

You did the right thing. Think about it. You're in Kansas where 170+ class deer have been seen & harvested recently. That deer wouldn't even book. From what I can see he looks like a 6 point. You'll see and ultimitaly kill a bigger one.

Pat, Baby buck, You made the right decision. Now that ten pointer that you took the pic of that was out of range. Look OUT.LOL Good Luck and hang in there.

Trebarker .... I don't agree with your "real bowhunters" comment ... Understand that outfitting is not illegal in Kansas, thus Pat and the others are not engaged in an illegal act .... the land this outfitter leases wasn't forced upon the farmers ... the farmers acted in their best interest ... now, if you really want to blame somebody for the deer decline in Kansas then look to the insurance compaines and the F&G .... there in lies the problem .... I've hunted with Pat and there is not a better, tougher hunter than this guy ... he is also an ethical hunter with high standards ... he's a hunter, not a killer .... all of us Kansans need to keep our focus on the real issues and keep emotions, like envy, out of it ... I'm still hunting the same place that I have been for the last 5 years and I bet you are too ... granted, I'm not seeing the deer I once did, but this outfitter and Pat are not the blame ... JMHO .... Dal

Just so everyone knows, my first post was completely in jest, i actually agree with pat's decision.

Dal I think Trebarker is trying to say that ya just can`t come to Kansas and climb a tree and shoot a 170 class buck within 2 hours of your hunt...we all know it still takes skill, patients, and a touch of luck to bag a nice buck. I`ve passed on 24 buck oppurtunities so far and have only seen one possibly 2 P&Y`s so far this year...Outfitting in KS is probably here to stay and we might as well deal with it Trebark..

Pat,

Agreed, looking back, you feel like you made the wrong choice; but how were you to know that on the first day? Good job of photography.

Either way it's your hunt but since you asked....

Not a great decision. It's bigger than anything you have ever shot AND it's not like you will never go back. Sure there are bruisers out there but it sure sounds like you had a problem passing him up.

Anyway, he'll probably come back in again this moring, it will be interesting to see if you pass him again!

You just never know what the weather holds or the deer gods have in store. I always take advantage of the good fortunes when the y arise...well I TRY and take advantage sometimes I make mistakes!

You made the right decision, Pat. I passed up a very similar buck at 5 yards several days ago - of course he stood there broadside for 10 minutes once I decided not to shoot, and that rack seemed to grow as he walked straight away with his ears turned back! But unlike you, I still have over 2 months to hunt the bigger bucks that I've been seeing.

Don't beat yourself up. It's obvious that you haven't hunted Kansas before. Let those dinks walk! You will be rewarded. I have had the luck of drawing a Kansas tag for the last 4 years and have learned to pass what most mortals would not. The first two years I shot those small bucks that scored 130 and 132. The last two years I made myself pass the 130-140 class and I have been rewarded with a 171 4/8 in 2000 and a 162 7/8 this year. I know it's hard but you are doing the right thing by taking video. I have enjoyed watching the video of my passed buck for endless hours.

I believe there is more to hunting than killing the big one, but it sure is nice if you do. Those "what if" scenarios fuel my desire to return and try it again. If one killed a monster deer/elk/whatever every time, I suspect the hunt would lose some of its magic. Good for you Pat, have the time of your life. Rob.

Pat- what are you- lit? That's steak all day baby.

"abuse me - I deserve it"

am I the only one for whom this conjures up memories of an old college girlfriend?

Pat,

Looks like you are in a target rich environment anyway.

I have a feeling you will score a nice buck.

Boots

OK, You're UGLY too.

Pat, in my opinion, you did the right thing.

If you've killed a few deer in this caliber, and are in KS or NE and have several days left in your hunt...by all means, let him go.

Pablo,

I thought the same exact thing, but I replaced abuse with "spank".

BFB

Had to do it

you will NEVER kill a big one if you keep shooting little ones !

good job pat, dont you miss a biggun, or i will beat you with your own bowstring

The question is not whether you would shoot him on the first day, but whether you would take him on the last day....therein lies the answer to your question.

Shooting the big one is not accomplished by passing little ones, it is accomplished by deciding to only shoot an animal of xxx proportions or nothing at all. Once that decision is made, it is no longer viewed as passing up other bucks, but simply still searching for the animal you are looking for.

Ramhunter

P.S. That buck would have grossed 126 3/8" and netted 125 5/8"....approximately!!

A $1,000 trophy fee would require about 2 more feet of horn before I would loose an arrow. If he ain't 150 he aint a Grand buck.

When you go on hunts like this it should be to take one that you cant get at home! Even if you end up not taking one at all the knowledge and experience you have already gained is invaluable! It's not necessarily the harvest but the hunt itself that counts! Enjoy!

Hi guys,

This hunt is out of this world! Check out Dan's buck from this morning.

I passed on more bucks tonight but the real reason was cause I was not comfortable with the shot, I would have had to shoot facing the tree and my longbow doesn't like to do that.

Just for clarification, Kent is the landowner, he does not lease the land. He is also one of the nicest, most sincere person I've met.

It's really cold now - tomorrow morning is going to be great!

See ya, off to bed now. If I can only get Dan to stop gloating. I liked him better as a "loser."

Cold? Stick around, this is still skinny dipping weather in Kansas.

Dan, congrats on a great buck. I'm suprised that Denny Sturgis, Jr. isn't with you on this trip? I heard there was a bigfoot sighting in SW Kansas and I figured it was just Denny .... 8^)

well - you certainly don't have a problem with picking active stands out there do you.

don't hold out too long...........you've only got a coulple more days and weather could be a factor.

Pass ....definately. You are hunting an area with much greater potential.

pat , glad it was you and not me !!i have never got a deer with a bow , probably would have tried the spike !! would have passed on the 8 as i would have been shaking to bad .i know you are having fun !! have a great hunt ------ herb

I bet Pat tags out this morning...I had bucks and does running all over the place this morning. The cool weather really got`m going...Had a nice 8 point at 15 yards raking a tree for about 3 minutes--pi$$ing all over himself..5 does, 3 deer before light, and a small 6 at 9:30...I didn`t want to get out of the stand!!! That`s 26 bucks so far this season that I`ve had under 20 yards....surely big boy will be walking by soon!!!

Pat---sounds like your having the hunt of a lifetime!!! Glad you hit the rut right on the money...C`mon now let`s see the picts

Lets start lobbyin Pat for lunchtime updates. Anybody got his cellphone #? Lets call him up. he he he

2.5 year old buck---no brow tines--

115 in a land of 170+ deer-

1st day--

I'd let him walk---good luck.

Pat,

Yes I would have passed on this buck. But thats just me. Remember, its all relative. I passed on an 11 point last night because I thought that he was marginal in making the books and we are managing this property for trophy bucks. Not to mention that I am just about velcroed to huge buck and willing to wait for him....Its all relative.... I may not shoot a big buck the rest of the season but thats ok with me (got plenty of sika in the freezer) I can tell you that 11 point may grow a little larger next year sport another point or two and maybe he will be the one I will strive for.

If that was the biggest deer you ever had a crack at then maybe you should have taken him. But maybe not... However, like you I have been a risk taker in all the years I have been hunting. In my early days before the wife, the kids, the bills, and all the responsibilites that go along with that, I use to pass up 140-50 class deer because if I filled my tag I wouldnt get a crack at the truly big ones. I used to kick myself later at those missed opportunities. Lately I have come to beleive otherwise. Dont have any regrets about passing on that deer...May the lord bless you with many more hunts in prime trophy whitetail country and many more chances at a big bucks...Dont ever lose focus on why were out there in the first place. Its a true blessing regardless of the outcome...Enjoy it!

Stagmitis

Day 4 is up.

I'm worried, He's drawin on does and videoin possoms.

It's all that Dan guys fault. All the big bucks are terrorized and hidin in fear. Probably ruined huntin for 25 mil acres all around for the next 5 yrs.

Time for a 20 ft tall sponge doe decoy soaked in Tinks 69 and make that Dan guy stay in camp. he he he

Get em Pat !!!

Pat,

Your a better man than me..... I would have shot him..... 8*)

Thunderflight

For that kind of $$$$$$---it's 170 or better or nothing at all.

I think you did the right thing. It would have been hard for me, but with a $1000.00 harvest fee I would have let it go too.

Drop the money issue! Most likely the "Hunt" is in exchange for the adverising on this site..Notice how the outfitter is "egging" you on with his own threads: "Pat's spectacle"..Think about it!

If it was the last day i would have taken him in a minute, but you have time and there are some real big boys in there. Good luck guys! Mike (shrewshooter)

That wasn't Kent egging on the live hunt, it was Dan Bertalan. He has nothing better to do now that he killed a big buck.

You need to register

I'd pass, for the simple reason he has some growing to do and has potential. its obvious he's a young one. Good job

Well guys, I couldn't pass it up, I had to call Pat at the ranch tonight and give him a bad time. One thing I can't get over; the sexy Omar hat that Dan Bertalan wears. I'm going to get me one of those bad-boys and I ain't kidding!

Overall, this hunt was a ton of fun to follow. I haven't been able to hunt the rut yet because I'm just getting over pneumonia, hopefully next week. We Kansans do have a few issues with our F&G to settle, but attacking this farmer/outfitter isn't the answer, nor the issue.

On behalf of all heterosexual males in Kansas, thanks for sharing your trip ..... Dal

Thanks Pat !!!

Enjoyed it.

Hope your done kickin yourself.

Don't know about you but I'd a been just plain happy to be there.

I agree Pat---I enjoyed the hunt too!! Glad ya had a good trip and seen alot of big bucks...

in retrospect your decision to pass was even better. what you saw was rarer than any book deer.

Pat this wouldn't be a fun post without a bit of ribbing!

You stated on your last day it didn't happen? You had that buck on the first day you could have shot and like I have learned, there is no reason to pass on a buck bigger than anything you have shot.

And think...if you would have missed that buck you might have hit....well you get the idea.

Anyway, enjoyed reading your hunt! Just a little ribbing!

No. I would not pass on this deer. Young enough to be tender and hopfully tasty.

Am I missing something here? Where's the 170" and 150" of antler that they've referred to. Nice bucks, but 150" and 170".... no. On the 170, I can't even make out G4's. You don't make B&C with hard-to-find G-4's. The "150" looks like an 8 pointer. It takes a heck of a buck to make 150" and those 8-9 inch tines won't do it.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're nice bucks, but not what they're claiming.

Thats a little one cant shoot the bigone shooting the little ones besides that bucks 3 1/2 years old and will carry a dandy rack next year.I got two py bucks so far and I finally learned how toget them and heres the secret.Let the little ones pass even if it means not shooting a buck!

I don't think that buck will get much bigger but I would've passed him too Pat in Kansas. Now If I saw him here in Ga.........

You made the right choice if that was not the buck you were looking to harvest. Some people who never took a buck that big or never hunted in Kansas may believe your a fool for not taking the shot. I would have made the same choice you did. Happy hunting

Thanks for the comments, obviously the decision had consequences as I never did get another clean shot at a the type of buck I was looking for. As I stated in the hunt, I did not pass because he was not big enough - I passed because I didn't want to end my hunt.

Had I shot him, I would have been darn proud of that buck, but I probably would have missed all of the awesome sights I witnessed the following 4 days. So in hindsight - Yes, I made the right decision.

Thanks for the comments..

Pat

Would probably take him, I am a meat hunter and dont pass up does, but eventually will change as I want one good wallhanger..Paul

Sorry but I would not pass on that buck. Unless I was wetting myself and couldn't get it together.

bobo

Your best desision is made during the moment of question. If it felt right to watch him walk past then you did exactly right. Maybe that buck ended up as someone elses first buck. He may have gone down the trail and sired the buck that will really take you breath away in 4 or 5 years. Just poising the question to us is great. Good Hunting Jeff

I would have shot him. I have not ever seen a deer that large when I was hunting. I would have been tickled to death to finish the week with a camera.

Pat, you made the right decision. I would have held out too. The opportunity for a truly awesome buck was too great.

If this was on the property I hunt I would say take it. But the property you were on and the first day of hunting, No Debate man, pass him by and wait tfor a big bruiser. Goos Luck and safe Hunting

I would have let him walk, there are larger deer here in kansas, If you look hard enough. This buck only looked to be a couple ears old and had some growing to do.

just remember he who waits waits till next year

Good decision! This is a buck that isn't done growing. If, however he still exibits no brow tines when he is older then he should be taken out of the gene pool!

never pass up a shot on the first day that you would take on the last.

I would have taken it. Then while dressing it out I would have had ten bigger bucks attack it and tear it too shreds.

Yeah, Bad decision. I passed on a similar buck last year and regretted it as it walked away and the rest of the season. Never saw him or any bigger the rest of the year. I learned and forgot an important lesson about 8 years ago when I passed on a nice 8 point at 10 yards because a big 11 point was at 30 yards and coming in. Never got a shot at the 11 point (someone killed him two weeks later he weighed 205 and scored 157), and blew my chance at the 8 point. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"

DaisyCutter

Pass or shoot...It doesn't matter. If it's a trophy to you, take the shot. If not let it walk. Who cares what it will score. Personally though, I live and hunt in KS and I would let the buck walk. If horns are what you're after, KS has many deer with bigger headgear. A buck like this is somewhat common. Especially in that part of the state.

You guys crack me up. Crying about never seeing any big rack bucks. It's because you shoot the first basket rack that comes your way. I will be the first to admit I've harvested about four basket rack bucks back in the day, when I was still green. If it's not a P&Y I will not shoot. I wouldn't even think twice about shooting a young buck like that. If it's meat your after harvest a Doe; and Let them young boys grow..

In my books, this buck barley exceeds "scab" status. Good call on passing it up - the only thing that troubles me is that you have any question about the decision. Go big or go home !!!!

I am so proud that you passed up this little 2 1/2 year old. I have hunted Kansas and that buck seems to be no more than a daily sighting. I estimate that buck between 95-105". You saw it up close what do you think it's gross was? Good Job!

I would have passed him up if I knew the area held better bucks and I had personally shot one better than this already. If it didn't meet either of these rules, WHACK!!!

Ya that sure is a nice buck and ll but now you no that there is also something bigger in that area because look what came in after that 8 a very nice 10 maybe next time try persistant calling!

sorry guys butt thats a baby...b.v.

I would pass this buck up because this buck has potential in 2 years to be a great trophy.

I would pass this buck up because this buck has potential in 2 years to be a great trophy.

I would have past him to thAT EARLY IN THE SEASON. EVEN THOUGH THE OLD SAYING IS NEVER PASS ONE UP THE FISRT DAY YOU WOULD SHOOT ON THE LAST DAY.IF YOU HAVE NEVER HUNTED IN KANSAS I WOULD NOT BLAM YOU FOR SHOOTING THIS ONE,BUT IF YOU HAVE YOU KNOW YOU'LL SEE A MUCH BIGGER ONE .

I didn't find the live hunt. Can somebody post a link?

not a chance!! it would have been on the wall bigger than any buck i have got to shoot at or see that colse probably my bad judgement but ive never shot a buck that one looks good to me